It’s difficult to decide between community college and credit by examination. One reader had some tremendous trouble with community college, and was asking about CollegePlus! as an alternative.
Hello Lee,
I noticed you have a link to College Plus on one of your web pages. Can you tell me anything about what you think about them as an option to community college? Or what other options you are referring to when you mention Homeschool College?
Two weeks into our 16-year-old daughter’s first quarter at community college, two pornographic reading assignments were handed out in her required English class. I knew from prior discussions with you that dual enrollment was risky. However, I thought that if we were “selective” in the classes we took, we could avoid the problems you had warned me about. We are looking for alternatives at this time.
Thank you for any input you can give, or let me know if you recommend purchasing some time with you to discuss this issue further.
With sincere appreciation,
Linda
Dear Linda,
I am so, SO sorry about your daughter’s class!! What a nightmare for a parent – and how anyone of any age can consider that educational in any way, I will NEVER know…. I feel your pain. I remember being horrified.
My children were in a similar situation. In a speech class, one student gave a presentation that was graphic and inappropriate. We had completely researched the curriculum and the teacher, because of our previous problems with community college class. I really thought we had done all we could do! But this girl gave a raunchy speech with sordid details, and my children now have a thorough understanding of that particular religion she was describing. Yes, community colleges can be a challenging situation.
CollegePlus is a Christian company that coordinates college by distance learning. In our family, we used only CLEP exams, and it was easy for me to coordinate by myself because I knew which 4 colleges they were going to apply to, so there wasn’t much of a concern. CollegePlus can help you make SURE the college credits are transferable. The only drawbacks are money (they charge a fee) and their emphasis on distance learning over a brick and mortar university.
I have an article about how I homeschooled a year of college with my boys. Here is the article for you to read.
Read the article and see if you feel comfortable doing the CLEP exams without assistance. If not, then check out CollegePlus. There is no harm in talking to them, to see how it works. Since I didn’t use their services myself, I don’t know all the details. Here is their website.
As you know, I feel very passionately about warning parents about community college so they can make an informed decision and be careful. I’m so glad that you were looking out for your daughter so that you recognized this situation as soon as possible.
In this situation, it may be difficult to withdraw from a class. There are often rules about how far into the quarter you can withdraw from a class without having it on a transcript. If it comes down to that, it’s better to formally withdraw from a class and get a “W” on your transcript rather than avoid the situation and end up with a failing grade or an incomplete. I have some clients that have had difficulty with explaining a withdrawal to their child. A son or daughter may become uncomfortable with class content and then simply stop going to class – and then they fail the class. In other words, be careful to withdraw from the class completely and formally.
Good luck, Linda. It sounds SO difficult!
I’ve recently been connecting with friends on LinkedIn. I invite you to send me an invitation if you want to connect with my business.
Recently I was awarded the “Family Friendly” seal of approval from The Old Schoolhouse. I was so excited – and it’s a cute badge to put on my website, too!
It puts me in a bit of an awkward place, though. Sometimes the information I need to provide is NOT fit for general audiences. When I speak about community college, I have to choose my words very carefully, so that I can convey the “R-rated” nature of the environment in the most honest way I can, but without offending people. Still, wouldn’t you rather be shocked about what I say, than have your children shocked every day in a community college setting?
As you are making your plans for next year, please know that your local community college is probably NOT going to win the Family Friendly Emblem from The Old Schoolhouse.
I was at a college fair, greeting different colleges and asking them about their admission policy for homeschool students. One representative from a community college had a very serious message that she wanted me to give you.
“Please tell homeschoolers that their children are sitting next to adjudicated individuals in class. People who have been in prison for a variety of reasons are sitting next to their 16 year old daughter. Please warn them!”
She was very concerned, but felt that she couldn’t be more explicit than that. It was obvious that registered offenders were her primary concern. I suppose that make sense. In an effort to provide job training, community college is often the next step. Still, she asked me to warn you, and there you have it!
Community college is a serious decision for parents to make. It’s not a “Rated G” Family Friendly place. There are some moments it is “Rated PG.” Indeed, “Rated R” material is not appropriate for every family. Parents, I encourage you to make a decision carefully.
When you are thinking about taking classes at a community college, using the dual enrollment option, it’s tempting to have your children take their weakest class. Community college can quickly provide missing classes, but always remember the long term goal. If your child is doing poorly at home in a certain subject, they may not do better in a community college. Spend some time looking objectively at your child, and decide if he or she is really ready for college level work. After all, most students who are a sophomore or junior in high school are completely grade appropriate and emotionally appropriate for high school. That doesn’t necessarily mean that your child will also be grade appropriate in college.
If your child is struggling to do the work at home, then placing them in a community college isn’t going to make the subject easier or a better fit, or closer to their learning style. Instead, the class will be harder and faster – more like an assembly line classroom. There will be less flexibility and possibility of matching a learning style.
Particularly if your child is a unique learner, I would try to expose them to as much success as possible, and encourage them to become a confident learner. That may mean you avoid the community college until they are older.
You want your child to have success in high school. You want them to learn at the level where they can learn and love learning. You don’t want to put them in a situation that is so challenging that they may fail. Community college is very popular among homeschoolers right now, but it’s not a perfect fit for everyone. If your child is doing well at home, you may want to keep doing what you are doing. If your child is struggling at home, then recognize there may be even more struggles if they are exposed to college level material at a college pace of learning. It’s not right for everyone, so evaluate the situation carefully.
Listen carefully to your heart, and remember that it’s OK to be working at grade level. It’s OK for high school juniors to be doing the work of a high school junior. You want your children to experience success in high school, not experience failure at a community college.
Which is best? AP, CLEP, or community college? It probably depends on who you ask. Each college will have their own unique policy for each option. One college may accept AP and not community college. One may accept CLEP by not AP. Colleges are unique in every way, but they are “frustratingly unique” when it comes to admission, placement, and transfer credits with AP, CLEP, and Community College courses.
You can be prepared by learning about your first choice universities, and find out what they want. Do they prefer CLEP or AP? Will they take community college credit – especially credits taken at YOUR community college? In some situations, like applying to highly selective schools, they may not accept community college courses for transfer credit or class placement. So in some situations, it may be a good idea to get BOTH kinds of proof for college level study. But the only way to know for sure is to check with the colleges where they plan to apply.
You will have to provide a transcript from the community college even if they do not accept the college credits.
I wish I could give an absolute “right” answer to which is best, but “it depends” is the best I can do!
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When I speak to groups, I sometimes express my dissatisfaction with dual enrollment community college. In Washington State, students can access this opportunity for free, and it’s called “Running Start.” Extremely popular with homeschoolers, I often get asked why I am hesitant about such programs.
My feeling about Running Start is that it’s often a “Rated R” environment, even when you control the teacher AND the curriculum. If I could do my life over, I wish I would have done two years of homeschooling college, not just one year. I wish I would have skipped Running Start altogether.
I don’t know your family, your children, or even your community college – so you are in a MUCH better position to make a decision than I am. Trust yourself! Here is a blog post that I wrote on our Running Start stories.
Running Start is EXTREMELY popular with homeschoolers in Washington right now, and I want parents to think it through and weigh the pros and cons, rather than just follow the crowd. When you talk to those who have gone before you, listen for the “but….” They will say things like, “We had a wonderful experience, but…..” Listen to what follows, and decide what is best for YOU.
Christian support groups on campus are a BIG help, so encourage your children to get involved in positive groups on campus. Also, use the buddy system, so that students are in groups in class.
If you are interested in alternatives, here is my “dig deeper” page on homeschooling college, in case you want to see what I mean by that.
OK people, after three weeks of intense voting, the category of Best Business/Curriculum Blog is…..tied! Now there is about 24 hours left to vote. If you haven’t voted yet, please vote for “The HomeScholar Helper” at the following link. If you have voted, please find another computer to vote on, perhaps the neighbors, I know they won’t mind. Tell them it is for a “higher cause” and “the greater good.” Explain that Lee’s husband is, well, a bit nuts.
Finally, if you vote for Lee’s blog, I promise to show you a picture of a cute puppy….
Joyce asked: Do you believe that the risk is community college itself (i.e., is it WORSE than the universities in moral issues – which I cannot imagine!) or is it the age at which our h.s. juniors and seniors are when they encounter it? I’d really like to hear what you think about this.
Dear Joyce,
I do NOT believe that the experience at community college has anything at all do do with the age of our students, and I don’t believe it has anything to do with naivete in general. Read this mother’s blog post. She is neither a young student, nor is she naive, and yet she has problems with community college as well – unique difficulties that we haven’t previously discussed. I think that the stories we hear about our children would be the SAME stories we would hear if WE were going to community college. It’s not the kids, it’s the environment.
I believe that community colleges are often worse than public universities, although I know that universities have their own unique challenges. Public universities will often (not always) have higher academic expectations, and (more importantly perhaps) the students population will often have higher academic expectations. Community college students are frequently remedial in one way or another. They often aren’t ready for a university – financially, academically, socially, or for some other reason. That means they can be a challenge to educate. For that reason, professors have told me that they use the “sex sells” approach. In a high school, although there are many issues, there are generally limits to the use of sex to sell their educational product. There are usually no such limits in a community college. Community colleges are meant to be an adult environment. They cater to the broad expanse of adults, not the unique subset of homeschool young adults who don’t want to mix education with unrelated material. Those adults include “adjudicated individuals” as one community college official warned me. She was extremely concerned about young, innocent homeschoolers in a classroom with newly released criminals. I’m sure the criminal element is relatively rare (although how would we know?) but the point is still important.
To me, it seems like community college will often have the socialization you normally see in a public high school. It will have the adult content and worldview of a university but without the normal limits seen at a university. Because they are public institutions, community colleges come complete with all the “public school” worldview and academics, which is the reason why many homeschoolers left public school to begin with. Some of those issues will also be present in a public university, like you mentioned, but other issues are unique because of the mix of students and teachers in a community college.
I know that I have a very unique perspective on community college, and I don’t think for a minute that my view is “right” and others are “wrong.” I also know that parents will make decisions about their children that I can’t make because I don’t know their kids – but they do! Parents are the best people to make these choices, that’s for sure! I’m just trying to open the discussion to include these issues. What I see in my homeschool community is that parents are feeling pressured to put their children into dual enrollment as a Junior in high school. I’m trying to remove that pressure, so that people can make judgments based on their understanding of the situation, and not do it just because other people are doing it.
Do you have your own community college experience? Join the conversation by adding your comments!
My friend Jen in Texas has given me permission to use her story about community college. Here is what she has told me about her daughter’s art class:
My daughter just started attending the local community college this week. Already she has an assignment from her Art Appreciation prof that has me wondering what colleges are teaching these days. *rolling eyes*
A piece of paper was passed around the class with a list of two items to compare. They were to choose one set and are to write a paper. My daughter saw the word “chapel” and picked it, although she didn’t know what the other word was.
We now know that it’s a series of “art” (cough-cough) films called the “Cremaster Cycle.” She and I have seen the trailer, and both of us have found it to be offensive. The artist based his work on a specific muscle of the male anatomy, and the whole movie is bizarre representations of the reproductive systems. Plus, there’s some gruesome death scenes too. We saw all this during just the 5 minute trailer!
She’s said that she’s going to talk with her professor about picking a different group to compare. I pray that the teacher is understanding and won’t give DD a hard time. I know that “art” is subjective, but SHEESH!
Jen in Texas
Jen was extremely surprised that this could happen at a community college in her area, because they live in the middle an area that is very much the conservative Bible-belt region.
Community college is becoming more and more popular among homeschoolers. It’s important for parents to realize the pluses AND the minuses of any educational setting. When I talk to parents about the experiences that we had in community college, sometime they think it happened to us ONLY because we live in the very liberal Seattle area. Yet I hear stories like this across the nation! I’m very thankful that Jen gave me permission to post her comments on my blog.
I don’t pretend to know what is right for your child. I know that parents are the only ones with all the information needed to really decide about community college! But I do want to make sure that parents go into a community college situation with their eyes open, and that they know there are risks as well as rewards.
I believe that community colleges can be a “rated R” environment. Sometimes as an adult, we have to work within a “rated R” world ourselves, as we read the newspaper and watch the news. When you are considering community college, don’t see it through rose-colored glasses, and think it’s a perfect educational utopia. Keep your eyes open to the fact that it may be more “rated R” than your student is ready for. If the crowd seems to all follow the community college route, that doesn’t mean you have to follow along yourself. Consider carefully, know your child, and trust your own judgment.
Please, let me know if you’d be interested in trading blog links. I am trying to encourage parents to homeschool high school, so if you think your readers might need to hear that message, please consider linking me. Thanks!
Running Start is a Washington State dual enrollment program, which allows students to attend community college while in high school, paid for by the state. The good news is that it’s paid for by the state, it’s college level, and it looks good on a college application. The bad news is that it can be just like public school, with all the same issues of a public school. In addition, they oftentimes have even more of a “rated R” environment.
Get tips on how to save money by homeschooling college on my Dig Deeper – “How to Homeschool College” webpage!
Just so you know, my good friend has had great success with community college, and is happy with the results though not always thrilled with the process. So here goes…
Calculus professor drops the f-bomb every sentence.
We chose a prof that was a homeschool graduate instead – he ended up coming to our graduation party. Great guy.
Physics prof used marital positions to describe physics principles.
Luck of the draw – we didn’t get him, but my friend did.
Music class book said “I capitalize Self because I was taught to capitalize the name of God” and instructed class to say mantra each day “I am good, I am great, I am God.”
We declined to take that class.
French class showed movies with unclothed people for culture.
No-go.
Speech class teacher and curriculum was OK, but another student did a speech on the religion of sex (no kidding.)
This teacher did take Alex under her wing and provided him great opportunities.
There were no economics courses that were at my student’s level.
The poli-sci classes were taught by a Marxist.
He did write a very nice letter of recommendation, though.
My students were well prepared for college. Within the first 2 weeks of college, they had done all the reading and completed all the assignments they could. They both spent the next 6 weeks learning how to be lazy, and get A’s without trying.
On the bright side, the community college did have an honors program. If you add additional coursework (teach a class, give an extra speech, write an additional paper) then you could get “honors” after the course. That helped a bit.
We couldn’t find many classes that would challenge my son and at the same time not offend our faith. That meant my poli-sci son Alex spent most of his time in engineering physics and math classes with his brother. I’m glad he liked differential equations, LOL!
In addition, we noticed that for the first time, my kids encountered people who didn’t want to learn. People there thought passing meant over a 0.7 gpa, and that a 2.0 in a class was good. People didn’t speak up in class, even when they knew the answer. The academic preparation was very low.
I go to a lot of college fairs in my business. One community college took me aside and said “Please tell homeschoolers not to send their young children to community college! We have adjudicated people in the classes!” She said felons, including predators, were known to be on campus, and they worry about innocent homeschoolers.
I live in very liberal Seattle, but I’ve heard these same things from a mom in Oklahoma.
I asked my son if he thought community college had been a mistake. At the age of 20 he said “YES!” If I could do my life over again, I would have homeschooled college for two years, not one. Community college wasn’t worth the cost of “free” education.
I think those are all my stories
I firmly believe that parents are the only ones qualified to make decisions about their own children, though. I can provide information from my perspective and experience, but each one of you knows what is best for your own child.
Do you have your own community college stories you’d like to share?
Curious about other options besides Community College? Check out my “How To Homeschool College” website and learn more.
If your child is bored with high school topics, you can consider two choices: college options and non-college options.
College options include going to a university at an early age (either as a regular student or “Non-matriculated” student) or attending a community college before going to the university. College policies vary on non-matriculation. College like to get money, however, and usually non-matriculated students pay the full price (no scholarships). Since it’s basically “free money” for the college, they are highly motivated to accept those students. With these options, the student is in a classroom with college-age people on a daily basis.
Non-college options include homeschooling college and other distance learning opportunities, where most of the academic work is done at home, similar to homeschooling. View this quick video on the process: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evJeAAJedbY
Here’s how it works: You pick and choose from online classes across the nation. All the work is done at home. All the results from those different online experiences are all sent to one university. If you choose to do it all four years of college this way, some (but not all) of the upper level courses require you to fly to the distance location for testing once a quarter. That University will provide “accreditation” for all the credits that are earned. Those accredited transcripts will be sent the next University your student wishes to attend. It’s possible to homeschool college from one quarter to all four years.
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